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The Deceptive Lies of Yasir Hanafi Deobandi Ash’ari Maturidi Jahmi On Imam Abu Hanifah on Where is Allah

Compiled, Translated and Annotated
Abu Hibban & Abū Khuzaimah Ansari


Publishers foreword

Alhamdullilahi Rabbil A’lamīn, Waṣalatu Wasalam Ala Rasūlillahil Karīm,  Wa, Ba’d

This is a very brief response to the video of Muḥammad Yāsir Ḥanafī Deobandī Ashʿarī Maturidī Jahmī. His sidekick, Ibn Nūr al-Shantī and some say he is this ‘Usamah Mutakkin,’ who is currently under hormone therapy as is his Shaikh Yāsir, claimed why did we chose another piece to respond to and why not this issue of where Allāh is.

So in order to show the readers more examples of their intellectual Jahmite fraud, we decided to compile this short piece. It was compiled in late October and early November 2015 but due to other commitments it is being released now.

We pray this benefits the readers and also shows the avid and sincere reader the true and actual reality of these youtube and intellectual jahmite fraudsters. 

These immature individuals spend most of their time causing mischief on the internet under numerous pseudonyms, guising themselves as ‘Salafis.’ This is indeed deception and immaturity from these individuals. Oh Ahl as-Sunnah beware of these people who pretend and take on the garb of Salafiyyah with the intent of causing chaos and corruption and diluting the truth in order to take you away from the worship of Allāh and the correct Islamic Creed.

We pray for their guidance and May the Mighty and Majestic, who is above the Seven heavens and rises over his Throne, Guide them, Amīn.

Salafī Research Institute

20th Muharram 1437H / Monday 2th November 2015ce

Birmingham, England.

Salafi Research Institute 2015



The lies and deception of Shaikh’ Yāsir Ḥanafī Deobandī Ashʿarī Maturudī Jahmī in his video ‘Imām Abū Ḥanīfah on Where Is Allāh’? 

The Ashʿarī Deobandī Jaḥmī ‘shake’ Yāsir Ḥanafī has a short you tube video clip where he discusses a saying of Abū Hanīfah about where Allah is.

The saying in question is that which is reported from Muṭʿe al-Balkhī that Abū Ḥanīfah is essence said that the one who does not know if the throne of Allah is in the heavens or the earth is a disbeliever.  

The neo neo Ashʿarī has throughout his video clip attempted to deceive the listener by interchanging the words of Allāh being ‘above’ with ‘sitting’ on his throne. By doing this he has denied the ‘highness’ and ‘aboveness’ of Allāh upon his throne and instead justified his stance by saying that to say Allāh is High or above necessitates that he is like his creation or is in a direction and in a place thus becoming a body/jism.  

In reality all he has tried to do is to persuade the listener that Allāh is not ‘above’ his throne as this in his neo neo Ashʿarī Deobandī twisted mind would necessitate that we are making Allāh like his creation and confining him.

In doing this he has opposed the Salaf and instead resembled his Ashʿarī and Jahmī forefathers and contemporary Deobandīs with there belief of Wahdah tul-Wajūd. Below is a very brief critique of his words and a detailed book on this topic in response to his misguidance is being authored as we write this. Allah’s aid is sought.  

The neo neo Ashʿarī Deobandī analyses this saying and by doing so make its apparent that he rejects Allah being above his throne, upon it’s apparent meaning, as was held by the Salaf. It is this erroneous belief that we critique alongside his ‘Sharḥ’ of his Imams saying.  

He says at 5:58 onwards in his recording that: 

“In Al Wasiyyah, Imam Abū Ḥanīfah says Allah is free from place and direction”. Then If Allah is sitting on the arsh then where was he before creating the Arsh?” 


Even if it were authentic it is a support against you rather than for you as detailed below from Ṭaḥāwīs words.  

It is clear that Yāsirs intended meaning by utilising this quote as evidence is to negate Allah being ‘high and above’ his throne because this according to him would confine Allah to a ‘direction’ of being high and he is saying, as all directions are created, we are therefore saying Allah is surrounded by his creation. 

According to him it would also confine Allāh to a ‘place’ and places are also all created. Therefore, we would be making Allah a part of the creation and resembling him to created matter [i,e, the direction and place of above/high] when we say ‘ALLAH IS ABOVE THE THRONE’. This is a futile claim and analogy by the neo neo Ashʿarī.   

We say, no doubt such thinking and philosophy is erroneous according to the ʿAqīdah of the Salaf of this Ummah and also by way of sound aql. In fact, it is in opposition to what his own Imam Ṭaḥāwī has discussed, see below. 

Note, the saying of Shaykh Abdul-Qādir al-Jīlānī (d. 561H) who said: 

“Whatsoever is on it (the earth) will perish. And the Face of your Lord full of Majesty and Honour will abide forever.” (Ar-Rahman 55:26-27). And He is in the direction of above (al-ʿUluww), ascended over His Throne, possessing the dominion, His knowledge encompassing [all] the things. “To Him ascends the goodly word and the righteous action raises it (the goodly word).” [Fāṭir 35:10]. “He arranges (every) affair from the heavens to the earth, then it (affair) will go up to Him, in one Day, the space whereof is a thousand years of your reckoning.” [Sajdah 32:5][1]

In Fact, Shaykh al-Jīlānī went onto mention that from amongst the distinguishing signs of the astray Jahmīyyah sect is that they say

‘Allāh does not have an ʿArsh (Throne) and nor a Kursī and [that] He is not above the Throne.’[2]

A note of caution we do not ourselves use terms such as ‘direction’ for Allah as this was not used by the Salaf in the first generations and is from generalised wording. Those that have used it in earlier times mostly did so to counter the warped understanding of the mutakalimūn who invented new terms in relation to the Ṣifāt of Allah and this is how it should be understood.  

We ask the neo neo Ashʿarī Deobandī to ponder on the words of Imām Ṭaḥāwī so maybe then he will understand how Allah being ‘above’ his throne is not meaning that he is in a created direction or encompassed by his creation.  

The Saying of at-Ṭaḥāwī Concerning the use of ‘direction’ there occurs in ʿAqīdah al-Ṭaḥāwīyyah, the saying of Imām at-Ṭaḥāwī (rahimahullaah): 

‘The six directions do not enclose, contain, encompass, surround Him as [is the case with] all of the created things’ 

And we have used a number of English equivalents (underlined) for the verb “hawa, yahwi” (in the statement, “tahwihi”) so that the meaning is clear. 

This statement has been used by the Ash’aris in order to impute their Jahmī belief, that Allāh is “neither within the creation nor outside of it” to Imām at- Ṭaḥāwī (Rahimahullāh) – free is he of them and they of him. And this creed of theirs, they learned it and acquired it from the Philosophers such as Ibn Sina (d. 429H) and the Jahmīyyah and the Muʿtazilah who are the true and real authors of this statement and creed. 

As for at- Ṭaḥāwī, then he was a Sunni and a follower of the Salaf, and this statement of the Imām – which is the subject of this article, along with his statements regarding the Arsh (Throne) are a decisive refutation of these Jahmites Walillahil-ḥamd. 

So we say: 



The above statement of Imām at- Ṭaḥāwī has been translated by some in a manner that allows the Jahmites to justify their falsehood that Allāh is not above all of creation, above His Throne (as is confirmed by at- Ṭaḥāwī elsewhere in his own words – see further below). So from these translations: 

‘The six directions do not contain Him – these are attributed to all created things’ 

The first half is correct, but the second half is incorrect and it is a lie upon Imām at-Ṭaḥāwī to claim that this meaning of the second half, which is provided in English in such a way, is the very same meaning as that intended and contained in at-Ṭaḥāwī original. 

Rather, the meaning of the statement of at-Ṭaḥāwī is accurately represented in English – if we just paraphrase our translation above a little: 

The six directions do not enclose, encompass, contain, surround Him, as they enclose, encompass, contain, surround all of the created things – meaning that nothing encloses, encompasses, surrounds or contains Him at all. However, the Jahmī-inducing translation is: 

‘The six directions do not contain Him – these are attributed to all created things’ 

And there is a difference between saying: 

Something is “surrounded, enclosed, encompassed” by the six directions (collectively) 

And between saying: 

‘The six directions are attributed to all created things (which can leave open the meaning that six directions collectively or individually are attributed only to created things)’ 

The particular translation allows them to negate what Allāh has affirmed in the Book and in the Prophetic Sunnah and upon the tongues of the Companions, the Tābiʿīn and the entirety of the early Salaf, upon Ijmaʿ, that Allāh Himself s above the Heaven, above the Throne – because this equals the attribution of a direction (from amongst the directions) to them, the Mutakallimūn – and direction necessitates makān (place) and place necessitates jismīyyah. So beware, and beware again of translations that come from the Jahmites or translations that come from those who are heedless of the snares of the Jahmites! 



And this is made apparently and abundantly clear by the following four points: 


You cannot escape from affirming that this universe is finite, meaning that it must stop somewhere and have an outer limit or boundary, otherwise it is pure atheism to claim the universe is infinite, and anyone saying such a thing has spoken with plain manifest kufr. 


As the above cannot be denied then the notion of the six directions only applies to what is within the boundaries of the said universe, and the six directions are all relative to each other as it relates to whatever is within the boundaries of the universe. And if anyone claims that the notion of six directions exists outside of the universe as it exists within the universe, then he has claimed that the universe is actually infinite and does not stop at any point, and he has spoken with plain manifest kufr.

And this is true upon the basis of the language of the Mutakallimīn themselves, because to them “direction (jiḥah) necessitate place (makān) and place necessitates something being a body (jismiyyah)” – so if the Mutakallimūn claim the notion of six directions exists outside of the universe, they have spoken with an infinite universe.

This is because if the notion of six directions exists outside the boundaries of the universe, then those six directions can only be considered directions if they are in turn surrounded by six directions and so on – and so you have to go to infinity to maintain that claim, and this is pure atheism. 

It is impossible for you to affirm that the creation is finite and at the same time claim the six directions that exist within it and which are relative to each other, also exist outside of the creation. So either you affirm the creation is finite or you affirm it is infinite. 


Following on from the above you cannot escape from affirming that Allāh exists outside of the mind, outside of this universe with a true and real existence and this true and real existence is signified by an essence (Dhaat) that has a ḥaqīqah (a true existing reality that is unknown and unfathomable to us), and that this essence is established by itself (al-qā’imu bi nafsīhi) and described with attributes (Ṣifāt). If you do not affirm this, you have not affirmed a true and real existence for Allāh, and this again is kufr. 


And once we have established the above three points – the game is already over and the fraud is demolished – that’s it. Because this leads us to the fourth point which is that in light of the above, this essence is not contained by the six directions as that is impossible, as has preceded.

And by the textual ruling of the Book and the Sunnah, the relationship between the creator and the created is that Allāh is above His creation, and this establishes that there are only two true and real directions in reality, above (fawq) and below (taht) – as at-Ṭaḥāwī confirms a little later. And the sound intellect agrees with the authentic text, so all of what has been mentioned above reconciles with and agrees with and conforms to what has come in the revealed texts. 

Note: Direction is not an existing thing in and of itself, it simply defines the relationship between two existing entities, and Allāh in His Book has stated both explicitly and implicitly in over 1000 places in His Book, that He is above His creation – and what the Kalāmists, Aristotelian Meta physicists, and Philosophers speak of regarding “direction” (jiḥah) and “place” (makān) and the metaphysical necessities they impose through them, as it relates to what is within the bounds of the universe, cannot and does not apply to Allāh. 

Further, Allāh sent Books and Messengers to guide us how to believe in Him and He did not leave it to the disposal of the language and terminology of the atheist and those who thought they could argue for Allāh’s existence through it, such as Jahm bin Ṣafwān [ex. 128H] and the Jahmīyyah, Abū al-Hudhayl al-Allāf [d. 235] and the Mu’tazilah, and Abū Bakr al-Baqillāni [d. 403H] and the Ashʿarīyyah.  

So we say to the neo neo Ashʿarī Deobandī that when he says, “Allāh does not exist in a place” “Allāh exists without place”, Allāh is not encompassed by directions” and so on, all of that is just meaningless sophistry – it actually has no meaning to it at all. It is empty, fruitless, meaningless speech and it is not even applicable, because we have already established that the notion of six directions does not exist outside of the creation – upon the language of the Mutakallimīn themselves – otherwise they must affirm the universe is infinite which is kufr.

They can’t do that. As we have established that it is impossible for Allāh to be encompassed by the six directions as all created things are, when they make these statements “Allāh is not in a location” and so on, its talk which has no real meaning.

In reality your words show that your real goal is to deny there is a Lord above the heaven and a deity above the Throne. 

So it is clear that you are upon a path which is intended to reject the clear explicit texts in the Book and the Sunnah and the ijmāʿ of the Salaf that “Allāh is above His Throne”, but you can’t do that directly, otherwise all people will come to know of your falsehood.

And this is why you cannot quote from any of the Salaf prior to 300H who denied that Allāh Himself, is above the Throne, rather you can only quote the latecomers, many of whom, whilst no doubt Scholars in their own right, were affected and influenced by the language of the Mutakallimīn 

Thus each of the above [four] points are undeniable. They cannot be opposed, denied, rejected, refuted. You can’t run. And you can’t make excuses O Yāsir Jahmī Ashʿarī Deobandī. Try it. 

So we ask this neo neo Ashʿarī Deobandī to establish the following if he is truthful in his claims: 

[1] That the universe is infinite. It can’t be done. 

[2] That six directions do exist outside of the universe as they exist within it. It can’t be done with your metaphysical language – otherwise you’ve spoken with an infinite universe. 

[3] That Allāh has no true and real existence outside of the mind, outside of the universe. It can’t be done. 

[4] That if Allāh exists outside of the mind and outside of the universe He must be contained by six directions. It can’t be done unless you can argue in favor of the points that have preceded. 

[5] That the texts of the Book and the Sunnah as well as the innate instinct (fitrah) of people, all combined, do not amount to the saying that “Allāh is above His creation”. It can’t be done either. Even al-Juwaīnī [d. 478H] did not dispute that, rather this is what led him to bewilderment and confusion at the end of his life. 

[6] Or that there are any Scholars from the Salaf from before 300H (or even 400H if we are generous) who held Allāh is not above the Throne, or who held that Allāh is “neither within the universe nor outside of it” which was given currency by kāfirs like Ibn Sina [d. 429H]. It can’t be done. The only people you are going to find are the Jahmīyyah and Muʿtazilah! 

 In light of the above, the saying of at-Ṭaḥāwī (rahimahullaah): 

‘The six directions do not enclose, contain, encompass, surround Him as [is the case with] all of the created things’ 

Is a decisive, definitive proof for Allāh’s Uluww, since it establishes He is not contained by the creation (as the notion of six directions only exists within the creation and it is all relative), and this establishes that He is unequivocally outside the creation, separate and distinct from it, outside of the confines of created bodies that are encompassed by the six directions on account of them being from within the creation. 



Finally, at-Ṭaḥāwī also said: 

And He has rendered incapable His creation of encompassing Him 

Meaning it is impossible for His creation to encompass Him in this life or the next. And this means that they cannot encompass Him in knowledge in this life, for they only know of Him what He has revealed to them. And they cannot encompass Him with their vision in the Hereafter (when the Believers will see Him), because they will see Him but cannot encompass Him with their seeing. 

And in this saying of at-Ṭaḥāwī is also an indication that the six directions cannot encompass Him either, as has preceded earlier on, as the six directions are notions within the universe, and as this is the case, then Allāh is above His Throne, above His creation, free of need of them, and they are in need of Him, and it is impossible for the creation to encompass Him.

Whether that is in the sense of knowledge or in the sense of what the Mutakallimīn speak of in terms of “jiḥah (direction)” and “makān (place)”, because all of that is below Him, and He is above all things, as at-Ṭaḥāwī said – and there are only two true and real directions, as it relates to Allāh and His creation, above and below.  

Considering the words of Ṭaḥāwī and the deductions thereof we say to the neo neo Ashʿarī Deobandī who tried to hide behind Imam Abū Ḥanīfahs words in al-Waṣīyyah that even if authentic they are are an evidence against you rather than for you as to say he is free from place and direction must be understood with the contextual background of Allāh being outside of his creation and the six directions not existing outside the universe, thus not having the capability of encompassing him. 

At 7:38 he quotes a report in Bukhārī that “Allah was and there was nothing other than him”. He then says ‘so where was Allah when there was no throne?’ 


We say to this ignorant one that, it amazes us how his Ashʿarī Jahmee forefathers and even Deobandīs in modern days [including the like of the sūfīs GF Haddād, Hamza Yūsuf, al-Kawtharī, Ghumārī etc] called it a vile innovation and in some places kufr to ask ‘where is Allāh’? in order to refute the Salafīs and Ḥadīth of the Slave girl. Yet, he asks a question such as this? This is no doubt a hypocritical stance.  

We also say that, we as Muslims all believe Allah is al-Awwal, before everything, and that his throne is part of his glorious creation. We do not delve into analogy and reasoning with our weak minds in explaining this. To ask such a question as this neo neo Ashʿarī Deobandī has done then this is what eventually led some of the earlier philosophers such as Ibn Sina to apostate as they eventually ended questioning the being and existence of Allah, Na’ūzubillāh.  

So in answer to your question we say, the Salaf clearly understood by Allah’s names al-Awwal, al-Ākhir, adh-Dhāhir, al-Bāṭin that they showed he was before everything and is closest to everything with his knowledge whilst he is above his Throne.  

al-Baihaqī narrates with his isnād from Muqātil bin Hayyān, [that] he said:  It has reached us – and Allāh knows best – regarding His, the Most High’s saying, “He is al-Awwal and al-Ākhir…”, that He is the first, before every thing and He is the Last, after everything, and adh-Dhāhir, above everything, and al-Bāṭin, closest to everything, and his closeness (qurb) is with His knowledge and He is above the Throne. This Muqātil is “Thiqah (trustworthy)”, and an Imām, a contemporary of al-Awzā’ī, and he is not “Ibn Sulaymān” for that one is a “mubdati’ (innovator)” and he is not trustworthy.[3]

The neo neo Ashʿarī Deobandī via his speech has alluded that in order for Allah to be ‘high/above’ he must have a throne and this leads him to the conclusion that when there was no throne he [Allah] cannot have been high/above. We will not give a hukm about whether this kalām is Kufr, Bidʿah etc we will leave you to decide this for yourself.

Sufficient it is to say that you have through your speech made Allah’s attribute of him being high and above dependent upon his creation, that is is his throne being present!! In fact, even after his throne was created you still seek to deny that he was above it.  Aū’zubillāh.  

We remind you to read the speech of Allah, The Quran, where Allah says: 

“And whoever strives only strives for [the benefit of] himself. Indeed, Allah is free from need of the worlds.”[4]

So know O Jahmī that you should know that Allah’s attributes are not in need of anything as you suggest.  

Instead what you have uttered is just pure ignorance and you use logic to explain away the texts of the book and sunnah. This is the way of the philosophers and true anthropomorphist’s who used there intellect and reasoning’s to eventually lead to the conclusion that Allah is above nothing thus rejecting his being above the throne. The neo neo Ashʿarī Deobandī is traversing a path like his forefathers from amongst the Jahmīs and Ashʿarīs some of which eventually ended up describing Allah with ‘nothingness’ hence rejecting him.  

We also ask you to consider the saying of Ibn Abbās (RaḍhiAllāhu ʿAnhu) wherein he said: 

al-Ḥasan bin Uthmān informed us, saying: ʿAlī bin Muḥammad bin az-Zubayr informed us, saying: Ibrāhīm bin Abil-Anbas narrated to us, saying: Yaʿla bin Ubayd narrated to us from Sufyān from Abū Hāshim from Mujāhid, who said: It was said to Ibn ʿAbbās, “There are some people who speak with [the rejection] of al-Qadr!”. So he said: “They reject the Book. If I was to grab the hair of one of them, I would cut it off. Indeed Allāh the Mighty and Majestic was above His Throne before He created anything, then He created the creation. So He wrote whatever would happen until the Day of Judgement and indeed the people proceed upon an affair that has already been concluded.”[5] 

So you can see how Ibn Abbas did not delve into ridiculous philosophy concerning Allah and rather just continued to affirm that he was above his throne without using his own logic or asking how.  

We say, know that it is from the essence of Tawhīd to believe in Allah being above the throne and not to believe so invalidates a mans belief in Allah.  

Imām al-Dhahabī reports in al-Sīyar,

ʿAmr bin Tamīm al-Makkī said: I heard Muḥammad bin Ismāʿīl al-Tirmidhī [who] said: I heard al-Muzanī saying, “The Tawhīd of any [person] is not valid, sound until he knows that Allāh the Exalted is over His Throne, with His attributes.” I said to him, “Like what?” He said, “Hearing, seeing, knowing.”[6] 


The neo neo Ashʿarī Deobandī then mentions the saying in question of Abū Ḥanīfah about the one who does not know if Allah is in the heavens or earth is a disbeliever and comments that Dhahabī mentions this saying of Abū Ḥanīfah in his al-ʿUluww and al-ʿArsh with it also being mentioned in Fiqh ul-Absaṭ of Abū Ḥanīfah from Abū Muṭʿe al-Balkhī 

10:45 onwards he says that, ‘Balkhī was a murjī, innovator and jahmī from muhadithīn as in meezan ul Ei’tidal of Dhahhabi’.  


lets not forget he was also a Ḥanafī of your Madhab.  

The Ḥanafī Deobandīs in relation to al-Balkhī pick and choose when they wish to use his narrations when it suits them, seems like a pick and mix ʿAqīdah just as we have advocated in the past, Ashʿarism and Maturidism and Allāh knows best what else. 

13:00 onwards he says: 

 “this narration gives impression Abū Ḥanīfah was anthrpomorphist, and also was a mujjasim, he was a person who attributed human qualities to Allāh” 


The true aim of this neo neo Ashʿarī Deobandī finally comes to light, that is to believe Allah is above is to liken Allah to creation.  Remember, this narration ascribed to Abū Hanīfah by his own follower al-Balkhī [let the Deobandīs sort out whether he is reliable or not as he is one of there own! We cannot be held to blame for mentioning something he himself mentions from his Imam whilst being a follower of his madhab] indicates that Allah is high above his throne and the neo Ashʿarī Deobandī has a big problem with this.

In reality by negating Allah being high this neo neo Ashʿarī Deobandī is saying Allah is above nothing and this was not the way of the Salaf.  

Note the following saying: Under the heading of Saʿīd bin ʿĀmir ad-Dabʿī, the Scholar of al-Baṣrah [d. 208H]

Abdur-Rahmān bin Abī Ḥātim said: My father narrated to me, saying: It was narrated to me about Saʿīd bin Āmir ad-Dabʿī, that he mentioned the Jahmīyyah and said, “Their speech is more evil than that of the Jews and Christians, for the Jews and the Christians, and the people of (other) religions, have agreed with the Muslims that Allah, the Mighty and Majestic, is above the Throne. [But] they said, “He is not above anything.”[7] 

14:00 onwards “the correct claim from Abū Ḥanīfah is what Shaikh imam Abdus Salaam mentioned in his book Hal ur Ramuz also transmitted by Mulla Ali al-Qārī in his Sharh Fiqh al-Akbar that “Whoever says I do not know if Allah is in the heavens or earth has done KUFR”, why because this statement gives an impression that Allah has a place, and whoever believes Allah has a place is a anthropomorphist mushabih and that’s why he has done Kufr.  


The huge irony is that there is very little difference between what the neo Ashʿarī denied being the saying of Abū Ḥanīfah via al-Balkhī and what he now seeks to report and explain away via Mulla ʿAli al-Qārī. This is the way of people of innovation they cannot be clear and precise in there stance or wordings, as we can see here.  

Once again the neo Ashʿarī Deobandī is trying to say that Allah is above ‘nothing’ because if we believe he is ‘above’ his throne we are giving the impression that he has a ‘place’ and this is kufr. Auzubillāh. 

We remind him once again of the sayings of the Salaf as it is clear that this neo neo Ashʿarī is saying that we are confining Allah to a place by saying he is above the throne.

In reality by describing him without his attribute of being high this neo Ashʿarī is describing him by saying that there is nothing above the heavens as who other than Allah can be above the heavens and above his throne?    

I heard Wahb bin Jarīr saying: “Beware of the opinion of Jahm, for they are trying (to say) that there is nothing above the Heaven, and this is nothing but the inspiration of Iblīs, it is nothing but kufr.”[8] 

And Abul-Qāsim Sulaymān bin Ahmad at-Ṭabarānī brings in ‘Kitāb us-Sunnah,’ as does al-Dhahabī in ‘Mukhtaṣar al-Uluww’ from al-ʿAbbās bin Fudayl al-Asfātī from Sulaymān bin Ḥarb who said, 

On the authority of Ḥammād bin Zayd [b.98H, d.179H] who said: I heard Ayūb as-Sakhtiyānī [d. 131H] when the Muʿtazilah were mentioned, he said: “The central axis of the Muʿtazilah is that they want to say there is nothing above the heaven.”[9] 

And al-Dhahabi, in his ‘Mukhtaṣar al-ʿUluww’ commented on this saying, 

‘This isnaad is like the sun in its clarity and like a pillar in its affirmation from the head and scholar of the people of Basrah (i.e. Hammaad bin Zayd).”[10] 

These sayings of the Salaf clearly show that there is something above the heavens and that is only Allah. Yet, the Jahmīs deny this and say there is nothing above the heavens. So we ask if Allah is not ‘above’ his throne then who other than him is the Qurān and Sunnah talking of when they say the Almighty rose over the throne? 

15:59 Ahl us-Sunnah Wal Jamaʿah we all believe in the Quranic ayat he rose above his throne [hand gesture of rising which is kufr according to him and from mushabih so he must repent]  


By saying this according to your own standards you have become a mujassimah, anthropomorphist. Your creed is based upon nothing but generality, confusion of speech and logic which is truly illogical as we have shown via the speech of Ṭaḥāwī above.  


At 16:38 onwards he says,  

“we believe this [istiwaa] but to interpret it that Allah is on his Arsh meaning with his being DHAAT [essence] none of the scholars of Ahl us-Sunnah have said this.”  


This is a lie upon Ahl as-Sunnah. Generally, the word ‘Dhāt’ was used as a reaction to the philosophy of the Muʿtazilites and Ashʿarīs. Hence, terms such as this and those like ‘distinct from his creation’ and so on were used to specify the actual ʿAqīdah of the Salaf. Nonetheless, to say as the neo neo Ashʿarī Deobandī has claimed we reiterate is just a pure lie upon Ahl as-Sunnah.  

Below are a few sayings about the use of the word DHĀT from the salaf. 

Abū Ibrāhīm Ismāʿīl bin Yaḥya bin Ismāʿīl bin ʿAmr bin Muslim al-Muzanī al-Miṣrī and he is the student of Imām al-Shāfʿī. He was born in 175H and died in 264H.

This creed of al-Muzanī is taken from the printed edition of his risālah ‘Sharḥ us-Sunnah’ with Jamāl ʿĀzūn verification.

Abū Ibrāhīm Ismāʿīl bin Yaḥya bin Ismāʿīl bin ʿAmr bin Muslim al-Muzanī al-Miṣrī said: 

“High, over His Throne [in His Majesty, with His Essence], and He is close to His creation with His knowledge. His knowledge has encompassed (all) the affairs, and the preceding decree (maqdūr) has He enforced. [And He is the Generous, the Forgiving], [and] “He knows the fraud of the eyes, and all that the breasts conceal.” [Ghāfir 40:19] 

In Fact, Dhahabī mentions at numerous places that the scholars of the past used the word Dhāt. He mentions: 

Abū Naṣr as-Sijzī al-Hanafī [d. 444H] said in “al-Ibānah”, “Our Imāms such as Sufyān al-Thawrī, Mālik, Ḥammād bin Salamah, Ḥammād bin Zayd, ʿAbdullāh bin al-Mubārak, al-Fuḍail bin Aʿyyāḍ, Aḥmad bin Ḥanbal, and Ishāq bin Rahawaihah, are upon agreement that Allah –Subhanahu wa Ta`ala is by His Essence (bi-ḍhatihi) above the Throne, and His Knowledge is everywhere.”[11]

Also al-Ḥārith al-Muhāsibī, said: 

‘As for His saying, “He ascended over the Throne…” and “He is alQahir, above His servants…”, and “Do you feel secure that He who is over the heaven…”, and “…then they would certainly have sought out a way to the Lord of the Throne…” then these and other verses like, “To him does the goodly word ascend…”, and His saying, “Then it (the affair) will go up (yarʿuju) to Him…”, then this is definitive, it necessitates that He is above the Throne, above all things, purified and absolved of entering into His creation, there is nothing from His creation hidden to Him at all. [This is] because He explained in these verses that His essence (dhātahu), with His self (bi nafsihī) is above His servants, because He said, “Do you feel secure that He, Who is over (fī) the heaven, will not cause the earth to sink with you…”, meaning, [He who is] above the Throne, and the Throne is over the heaven, because whoever is above something, over the heaven, then he is [said to be] “fis-samā”, [meaning] over the heaven’[12] 

Imām al-Dhahabī quotes from Ibn Abī Zayd al-Qayrawānī al-Mālikī,

‘And that He, the Exalted is above His Glorious Throne, with His essence (bi Dhātihi) and that He is in every place with His knowledge.’ 

And then comments upon this: 

‘And the likes of this phrase has preceded from Abū Jaʿfar Ibn Abī Shaybah and Uthmān bin Saʿīd ad-Dārimī, and likewise Yahyā bin ʿAmmār, the preacher of Sijistān, used it in his Risālah, and also the Ḥāfiẓ, Abu Nasr al-Wā’ilī al-Sijzī in his book al-Ibānah1342, for he said, ” Our Imāms like Sufyān ath-Thawrī (d. 157H), Mālik (d. 179H), Ḥammād bin Salamah (d. 167H), Hammād bin Zayd (d. 179H), Sufyān bin Uyainah (d. 197H), al-Fudayl (bin ʿAyyāḍ (d. 187H), Ibn al-Mubārak (d. 181H), Ahmad (d. 241H), and Ishāq (d. 238H) are agreed that Allāh is above the Throne bi dhātihi (with His essence) and His knowledge is in every place.” And likewise Ibn ʿAbd al-Barr as will follow, and likewise the phrase of Shaikh al-Islām Abū Ismāʿīl al-Ansārī who said, “And in many diverse reports [there occurs] that Allāh is above the seventh heaven, above the Throne with His self (bi nafsihī)”. And likewise al-Hasan al-Kurjī ash-Shāfʿī who said in this poem, “Their belief is that Allāh is over the Throne with His Essence (bi dhātihī), with His knowledge of [all] the unseen”. And upon this poem is written, in the handwriting of al-Allāmah Taqī ad-Dīn bin al-Salāh, “This is the belief of Ahl al-Sunnah wal Jamāʿah.” And likewise this phrase was used by Ahmad bin Thābit at-Turkī, the Ḥāfiẓ. And Shaykh Abdul Qādir al-Jīlānī, and the Muftī ʿAbd al-Azīz al-Qahītī and a group (of scholars)… And what Ibn Abī Zayd and the others meant (by this) was to distinguish between His being with us and His Being above the Throne. So He , as He said, is with us in knowledge, and that He is over the Throne, as he informed us when He said, “The Most-Merciful ascended (Istawā’) over the Throne.” And a group of the People of Knowledge spoke the aforementioned word (bi-dhatihi), as has preceded, but without doubt, to leave superfluous speech is from the better part of Islām.’[13]  

And the intent of al-Dhahabī is that as the revealed texts are so apparent, manifest and clear in their meaning, that it is Allāh himself who is above the Throne, above the heavens, and this being immediately understood to anyone who understands the language of the Qurʾān and of the Arabs, without their being any doubt whatsoever in this, then the use of the phrase bi-dhātihī is superfluous and not needed.

And the Jahmīyyah already know the position of al-Dhahabī in that he affirms that Allāh is above the Throne, above the heavens, for he would not have compiled the book ‘al-ʿUluww’ if he did not hold this as his belief.  

al-Dhahabī also comments upon the statement of Yaḥya bin ʿAmmār [d. 422H] who also used the phrase bi-dhātihī: 

‘We do not say as the Jahmiyyah say that Allāh is inside places and is merged with everything and that we do not know where He is. Rather, we say: He is, with His essence (bi dhātihī) above the Throne, and His knowledge encompasses everything.’[14]  

With the following remark, 

‘I say: Your saying bi dhātihī is from your kays (subtlety, intelligence), and it has a good interpretation (mahmal hasan), but there is no requirement for it because the one who interprets istawā’ says that He subdued (qahara) with His essence (bi dhātihī) and that He conquered (istatwlā bi dhātihī) without any aider or assistance.’[15] 

Hence, it is clear Dhahabī also did not like to use the words ‘bi-ḍhatihi’ he acknowledged this was what many of the Salaf had mentioned. He also clearly mentioned as we have said above. 

We truly hope the neo Ashʿarī is paying attention to the word Ḍhāat and the Salafs use of it and can take his claim back. Or will he say that the numerous Ḥanafīs we have quoted amongst those who used this word are not Ahl as-Sunnah? 

18:58 onwards he says: 

Dhahabī said “to Say Allah is above his throne BI-ḌHATIHI with his being there is no need to say these words [with his being] because this word with his being [ḍhāt] causes “fitnah, disturbance and trouble within people” 


 Here he is once again misleading the listener as he quotes from Dhahabīs Sīyar but does not give any kind of reference background about whom and why these words were said by Dhahabī. 

We refer the neo neo Ashʿarī Deobandī to Dhahabī’s ‘Mukhtaṣar al-ʿUluww’ wherein Dhahabī explains in effect why he disapproved of the words ‘bi dhatihi’ [with his essence] and this was because it was said by the likes of Imām Ibn Abī Zayd where he intended to refute the innovators who denied Allah being above the throne.[16]

However, Dhahabī said there was no need to say Bi-Dhatihi as event they the innovators who make ta’wil of Allah being above the throne accept ‘he is above, meaning he conquered, bi-dhatihi with his essence’. hence, there remained no need to use the same language as them. Dhahabī says,  


‘Ibn Abī Zayd and others intended to distinguish between Allāh, the Exalted being with us, and between His, the Exalted, being above the Throne. And so it just as he said, that Allāh is with us in knowledge, and that He is above the Throne where He says, “The Most Merciful ascended over the Throne” (20:5).’[17] 

And the intent of al-Dhahabī is that had Ibn Abī Zayd not used this expression, he would not have been subject to hostility.

In another place, al-Dhahabī says: 


‘We have mentioned that there is no need for the phrase bi dhātihī (with His essence) and it disturbs the souls, to leave it is more befitting and Allāh knows best.’[18]

Therefore, it is clear that al-Dhahabī considers it is better to leave off using this word, not because the underlying meaning intended by this phrase is false and rejected [that is Allah is above his throne] as has been imagined by the Jahmīyyah and the neo neo Ashʿarī Deobandī.  

So we ask the neo Ashʿarī has he even read the books of Dhahabī and his ʿAqīdah on Allah being above his throne or is he just content in picking up a line and the showing it completely out of context? This is treachery with the Salaf and the words of Dhahabī also.  

19.20 onwards he comments on Dhahabī words by saying “and its true if I say Allah is ABOVE Sitting on his throne like this [and he shows himself sitting in his lecture chair] whats the first IMAGE that comes in your mind that nauzubillāh that Allah is SITTING on his throne like this and is sitting on his throne like this [and he touches his chair whilst sitting in his lecture chair to show the sitting].  


we ask, why must the Ashʿarī Deobandī use his own limited knowledge and intellect in assuming that by describing Allah with being above his throne it must mean we are limiting him and likening him to creation? It is rather he who has the fikr and thought of the anthropomorphic and jumps to incorrect conclusions about Allah using his own intellect. Does the belief that Allah is above the throne lead to Tashbīh or anthropomorphisms? 

Then we have shown throughout this response that the Salaf in the first three hundred years at least did not believe any such notion. In reality, those from the earlier generations of the Ashʿarīs and others opposed the belief of what this neo neo Ashʿarī Deobandī is upon.  

The views of al-Ash’ari himself regarding al-ʿUluww and al-Istiwā are also narrated from al-Ashʿarī by the likes of Ibn Fawrak and Ibn Asākir and such quotes are also collected by al-Dhahabī in ‘Mukhtaṣar al-ʿUluww.’ 


Imām al-Dhahabī wrote in ‘Mukhtaṣar al-ʿUluww’

“And al-Ashʿarī said in the book of his ‘al-Ibānah Fi Usūl al-Diyānah’ in the chapter of ‘al-Istiwaa’: And if one says: What do you say regarding al-Istiwā? It is said to him: ‘We say that Allāh is ascended over His Throne, just as He said, “ar-Rahman has ascended the Throne”, and He said, “The goodly word ascends up to Him”, and He said, “Nay, He raised him (Isā) up to Himself”, and He said, quoting from Fir’awn, “And Fir’awn said: O Haman! Build me a tower that I may arrive at the ways, The ways of the heavens, and I may look upon the Ilah (God) of Musa but verily, I think him to be a liar.” So he (Fir’awn) disbelieved Moses in his saying, “Indeed Allāh is above the heavens”. And He, the Mighty and Majestic said, “Do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven, will not cause the earth to sink with you, then behold it shakes (as in an earthquake)? Thus, the Throne is above the heavens, and when the Throne is above the heavens, and everything that is elevated is (called) “samaa” – He did not mean when He said, “Do you feel secure that He, who is above the heaven”, all the heavens, but He intended the Throne which is the highest of the heavens. Do you not see that He mentioned the heavens, and then said, “And He placed the moon therein as a light”, and He did not intend that it (the moon) fills all of the (heavens), and that it is in all of the heavens.‘ He [al-Ashʿarī] said: ‘And we see all of the Muslims raising their hands – when they supplicate – towards the heaven because Allāh is ascended above the Throne which is above the heavens, and if Allāh had not been upon the Throne, they would not have raised their hands towards the Throne. And [some] say amongst the Muʿtazilah, Jahmīyyah and Harūrīyyah have said: The meaning of Istawā (ascended) is Istawlā (conquered), and owned and subdued, and that He, the Exalted, is in every place, and they rejected that He is above His Throne as the people of truth have said. And they have tended (to the view) regarding al-Istiwā that it means “al-Qudrah” (power), and if it had been as they have said, there would have been no difference between the Throne and between the seven heavens, because He is powerful (Qādir) over everything, and the earth is a thing, so Allāh is powerful over it, and also over all the hushūsh (places where people relieve themselves) and so on, and if He was over the Throne with the meaning of “Istīlā” (conquering, subduing), then it would be permissible for it to be said: Indeed Allāh is ascended over the hushūsh and akhlīyah (places where people relieve themselves). Hence, that al-Istiwā [over the Throne] should be “al-Istīlā” is invalidated.’ And he mentioned evidences from the Book and the Sunnah, and intellect besides that [which is already mentioned] And the book “al-Ibānah” is from the most famous of the [works] of authorship of Abu al-Hasan, al-Ḥāfiẓ Ibn Asākir made it well known and he relied upon it, and the Imām, Muḥyi ud-Dīn an-Nawawī made a manuscript of it with his own handwriting.[19] 


20:15 He [Dhahabī] himself is saying don’t say he is above his throne with his essence dhāt why becuase saying this gives the impression that Allāh has a body, that Allah is like his makhlūq [creation], a person will fall into fitnah, it creates trouble, it creates disturbance”.  


See what we have written above about this quote as Dhahabī is not negating Allah being above his throne but discusses the use of the words dhāt and there being no need for it as the opposers themselves affirm it.

Nor did Dhahabī say that such belief ‘gives the impression Allah has a body, Allah is like his makhlūq.’ From where the neo neo Ashʿarī Deobandī ahs got this he must show us from the words of Dhahabī these words.  

Furthermore, the entire Ummah knows Dhahabī stance via his books al- ʿUluww and Kitāb al-ʿArsh where he goes into great detail to confirm that Allah is above his throne. This short treatise shows throughout what Dhahabī and others have recorded from the Salaf.  Some of what Dhahabī has recorded in his ‘Mukhtaṣar al-ʿUluww’ is as follows: 

Abū ʿUmar at-Talamankī [d. 429H] in his book al-Wuṣūl Ilā Maʿrifah al-Usūl, in two volumes: 

‘The Muslims from Ahl as-Sunnah are unanimously agreed that the meaning of His statement, “He is with you wherever you may be” and what is similar to that from the Qur’an is that it [refers to] His knowledge, and that Allāh, the Most High, is above the heavens with His Essence (bi dhātihi), ascended (mustawin) over His Throne however He wills’. 

And Ibn Abī Zayd al-Qayrawānī [d. 389H] said: 

‘And He, the Exalted, is above His Glorious Throne, with His Essence (bi dhātihi) and He is in every place with His knowledge’. 

And Ibn ʿAbdul-Barr [d. 463H] after discussing the Ḥadīth of Nuzūl: 

‘This is an authentic Ḥadīth, none of the Ahl al-Ḥadīth have differed over its authenticity, and it contains an evidence that Allāh, the Exalted, is above the heaven, over the Throne, above the seven heavens, as has been said by the Jamaʿah and it is their proof against the Muʿtazilah, and this is more famous to the general and specific (folk) and more well-known for it to require frequent quotation …’ 

Also From Ibn Abī Zayd al-Qayrawānī,

‘…And He, the Exalted, is above His Glorious Throne, with His Essence (bi dhaatihi) and He is in every place with His knowledge…’ [20]

And from Ibn ʿAbdul-Barr

‘… and within this (the Ḥadīth of Nuzūl) is evidence that Allāh, the Exalted, is above the heaven, over the Throne, above the seven Heavens, as has been said by the Jamaʿah, and it is their proof against the Muʿtazilah and the Jahmīyyah in their saying that Allāh is in every place and is not above the Throne…’ [21]

And this is exactly what the Salaf, past and present held, in opposition to the Jahmīyyah, Muʿtazilah, the Theologians and the Jahmite Ashʿarīs of later times, who claim that declaring Allāh to be “above the Throne” necessitates confinement and Tajsīm. 

We say, in fact Dhahabī had great concern to establish Allah being above the throne. which raises the questions did he believe that to have the ʿAqīdah Allāh is above his throne will necessitate that he has  a body, or is confined in a direction or space thus causing fitnah? 

In reply, In his last remarks in his al-ʿUluww Dhahabī states:  

Yes, this is what the deniers of the ʿUluww (highness) of the Lord, Mighty and Majestic, have depended upon. And they turned away from the requirement of the Book, the Sunnah, the sayings of the Salaf and the innate dispositions of the whole of creation. What they claim to be necessitated (from affirming Allāh’s highness) is only applicable to created bodies. Yet there is nothing like Allāh and the necessities arising from the clear and evident texts (of the Book and the Sunnah) are also true. However, we do not make use of any expression except one that comes through a narration. In addition to this we say:

We do not accept that the Creator’s being upon His Throne and above the heavens, necessitates that He is confined (in space) and in a direction, since whatever is below the Throne is said to be confined (in space) and in direction. However, what is above the Throne is not like that. And Allāh is above the Throne as the very first generation are unanimously agreed upon and as the Imāms after them have quoted from them. They said this in refutation of the Jahmiyyah, those who said that He is in every place seeking as a proof His saying, ‘And He is with you…’

So these are the two sayings which were present in the time of the Tābiʿīn and their successors who came after them. And they are the two sayings that can be understood in the statement.  As for the third saying which arose later which is that “Allāh the Most High is not in any of the places, nor outside of them, nor above His Throne, not attached (merged) with His creation, nor separate from it, nor is His essence (Dhāt) confined in space, nor is He separate and distinct from His creation, nor is He in any of the directions, nor is He exempt from of any of the directions, and nor this and nor that.” then this is something that cannot be comprehended nor understood, along with the fact that within it is opposition to the verses (of the Book) and the narrations (from the Salaf). Therefore flee with your religion and beware of the opinions of the Mutakallimūn (Theologians).

Believe in Allāh and what has come from Him upon the desired intent of Allāh, then submit your affair to Him and there is no power nor movement except by Allāh. The book is completed and all praise is to Allāh alone.’

Subhānallāh. It is as if Dhahabī was answering the deviant claims of the forefathers of this neo neo Ashʿarī Deobandī. How he can now hide behind the cloak of Dhahabī is beyond us.

Thus, is the way of Ahl al-Bidʿah exposed, they are not able to establish their doctrines through revealed texts upon the understanding of the Righteous Salaf or of the Imāms of the Muslims in the first four centuries after hijrah (before 400H), and have to resort to twisting the sayings of the Scholars, lying upon them and trying to deceive the people at large. 

Our final words to the neo neo Ashʿarī Deobandī is to repent to Allah for his incorrect ʿAqīdah and stop corrupting the ʿAqīdah of the Muslims for verily a day will be upon us when we shall all be before our Lord answering for our actions. 

By the two weak slaves of of Allah, The Mighty and Majestic

Abū Ḥibbān and Abū Khuzaimah Anṣārī

23rd Muharram 1437H.

Thursday 5th November 2015ce



[1] ʿAbdul-Qādir al-Jīlānī, Ghunīyyah ut-Tālibīn [1:146] 

[2] ʿAbdul qādir al-Jilānī, Ghunīyyah ut-Tālibīn [1:228] 

[3]  al-Dhahabī, Mukhtaṣar al-ʿUluww [pp. 139], al-Maktab al-Islāmī, Beirūt, Lebanon, 1991ce]

[4] al-Qurān 29:6 

[5] al-Lālikāʿī, Sharḥ Usūl al-Eiʿ’tiqād Ahl as-Sunnah waʿl-Jamāʿah [pp.439] 

[6] al-Dhahabī, al-Sīyar [12:494]

[7]  “Mukhtasar al-Uluww” of adh-Dhahabee (p. 168). 

[8] al-Dhahabī, Mukhtaṣar al-ʿUluww [pp.170] 

[9] al-Dhahabī, Mukhtaṣar al-ʿUluww [pp.132-133]

[10] al-Dhahabī, Mukhtaṣar al-ʿUluww [pp.132-133]

[11] al-Dhahabī, Kitāb al-ʿArsh [2:341], Sīyar Aʿlām an-Nabulā [17:656]. al-ʿUluww [pp.248] 

[12]  al-Muhāsibī, Fahm al-Qurʾān [pp. 346+] 

[13] al-Dhahabī, Mukhtaṣar al-ʿUluww [pp.255+]’ 3 al-ʿUluww (al-Maktab al-Islā

[14] al-Dhahabī, Mukhtaṣar al-ʿUluww [pp.263]

[15] See previous footnote.

[16] al-Dhahabī, Mukhtaṣar al-ʿUluww [pp.255]

[17] al-Dhahabī, Mukhtaṣar al-ʿUluww [pp.255]

[18] al-Dhahabī, al-Sīyar Aʿlām an-Nabulā [19:607] 

[19] al-Dhahabī, Mukhtaṣar al-ʿUluww [pp.238-239] 

[20] al-Dhahabī, Mukhtaṣar al-ʿUluww [pp.150] 

[21] al-Dhahabī, Mukhtaṣar al-ʿUluww [pp.143] 

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  1. Ma aha Allah.
    Excellent article… super solid…

    I just wanted to add this,

    Science also confirms that the space (directions) has a beginning. With the Big bang, the space and time also began to exist. There was no space and time before the universe. So outside universe there is no space and hence, Allah is not in space so, the point that the salads put Allah in a location or at a point is logically invalid.

    Moreover, by saying He is everywhere, deobandies are putting Allah in space because space is finite and ends at the boundary of the universe. So by saying Allah is everywhere they are limiting Allah. Nauzubillah.

    Allah is above the throne and outside the universe is theologically, logically and scientifically correct.

    And Allah knows best.
    May Allah guide us all. Ameen.

    • Correction: Allah is not in space so, the point that the SALAFS NOT ‘salads’ put Allah in a location or at a point is logically invalid*

      One more things, the term everywhere cannot be infinite because an actual infinite cannot exist as Imaam al Ghassali argues in his book, The incohenrence of the philosophers. Hence, by saying Allah is everywhere, deobandies are putting Allah at a place not outside of space. This is a logical refutation which cannot be refuted by anyone. In sha Allah.

  2. Ma shaa Allah! Very solid Text.

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